Created BY:Patrick Stanley10-04-2023 12:47 PM
Mexico Mario Kart Challenge
Play and complete a single track of Mario Kart on any console while in Mexico.
WIN 1000 SUBMISSION POINTS
The bounty will be awarded to the first gamer who submits a run of Mario kart played from within the country of Mexico. Any track, character, vehicle, and console that plays Mario Kart can be used.
A reasonable belief that the game was played inside Mexico is required, but no specific evidence is necessary. Showing one's location on Google map or something similar may speed adjudication.
Please place any questions, comments or concerns in the discussion thread below!
Pixe Sukola thanked this post
ShareIt's a matter of perspective. Every bounty that TG has put up by themselves can be assessed as being biased towards a subset of people. You may as well argue that this bounty excludes people without access to Mario Kart.
The positive side to this is there are members of the community trying to show appreciation to others in the community by gaming the system - which is aptly on-point for a gaming scoreboard. ;)
I am not arguing that this bounty excludes people without access to Mario Kart. By exaggerating, misrepresenting, and just completely fabricating my argument, it's much easier to present your own position as being reasonable, but this kind of dishonesty only undermines honest, rational debate.
In addition, you have created what's called a 'False Equivalence' between my actual argument, and the fictional one you created. Condition one (access to Mario Kart) is expected when competing for Mario Kart challenges. The second condition (Playing in the country of Mexico) is being used for the specific purpose of only allowing one person in particular to claim the bounty and nobody else.
I understand people want to show appreciation to others, but this isn't the way to do it.
There are over 125 million people in Mexico who could also take advantage of the the bounty. Just as anyone from any other country could travel to Mexico, play, and then submit.
https://www.twingalaxies.com/pixe-sukola/wall/12233/need-submission-points/page/1#comment95434
There are not 125 million people, who are in mexico, who have had this bounty specifically crafted for them. There is only one person who fits all that criteria.
lol...just because a conversation was had in a thread, doesn't mean the bounty is only claimable by that person. Where in this bounty is that person singled out as the only one who can claim the bounty?
I get it, the underlying purpose of the bounty system is to encourage competition. But the idea that anyone can compete in any bounty is a fallacy from the start. That is the point Barthax was making.
Even in this case though, the award of sp to the gamer who claims them will create more competition for the site as a whole, so it serves it's purpose imo.
That again, is not my argument. The bounty was intended to be only claimable by one person. Jace said (or heavily implies) that isn't allowed, that's my argument.
The idea that someone needs access to a game in order to compete in it is not a fallacy.
I'm curious though what issue you have with a bounty being crafted for one person? For example, why, in your mind, would it be problematic for me to create a bounty saying I will pay John Doe $5000 if he can 1cc Rampage on the Arcade or MAME?
In a forum create to challenge and reward gamers for their prowess, this seems like a perfectly reasonable bounty. Do you disagree?
I want to see cool challenges. I don't want to see the bounty system devolving into posts of people begging for SP or money.
Seems the issue here is not with the bounty but with what you subjectively believe is worthy of being a bounty
"Twin Galaxies is excited to offer its community a one-of-a-kind system and toolset that is designed to allow verified users the opportunity to easily create or claim achievement-oriented bounties!"
This just simply isn't an achievement oriented bounty.
"Gamebuster".
Edited a lot of unpleasantness there, everyone seems to be pretty civil about this.
Ah, Man, I'm sorry that people who have "done stuff" can ask for help, to me, that's why you "do stuff", and Daniel deserves this help.
Transferring submission points should be an option open to everyone and it should have been implemented a long time ago.
I would agree that making a bounty that only 1 person can win or is intended for is wrong, but in this case it's just the right thing to do. I didn't explain it very good but if it were to increase a person's bounty wins or count then I would be against it.
Oh wow I didnt even see this discussion until now. I understand gamebuster´s point, he feels we are trying to cheat the system. I only thought of asking this in my wall post because Jace himself said that SP could be use as sort of real money, could be transferable, etc, I would have never thought of trying to buy SP or begging like you said, if Jace hadn´t metioned it first. And I only included the ¨begging¨ in my post because I konw there are people who arent interested in money. If I had lets say 1000 points, I would not mind giving 50 for free to somebody, I would feel akward recieving monetary compensation for that. But some other people could use the money I offer to maybe buy a new game or replace a controller. That is why I included both the begging and the trying to buy aproaches.
I have been an active member for years and over the years Jace has granted to me some privileges on this site that no one else has and I feel honored by it. If this represent something that could be seen as ¨tarnishing¨the reputation of TG and Jace is not cool with it, I dont mind skipping it and canceling my submission. If people feels like the competition in a bounty shouldnt be so narrow, I dont mind participating in a lets say more open competition.
Yesterday Jace commented on my post and I assume he read it, so he saw the begging and the trying to buy points and he didnt say anything about it. So I dont think he opposses it, if he does then there is nothing more to argue really.
I don't even really care about SP myself. I actually like the idea of people transferring SP, I think something like that would be beneficial.
I am more worried about the bounty system, as I don't want to see the bounty system used in this manner. I don't want to see bounties like this clog up the feed. It's supposed to be used for cool challenges. Having bounties like this will make it hard to find good ones to participate in, and to search for old ones that were completed.
Look, I wouldn't claim this challenge as cool, but you keep referring to subjective words in trying to say what you think a bounty should and shouldn't be?
Who is the arbitrator of those words?
We haven't been given very many tools on this site that we have control over, so what few we have, folks are going to use for the purposes that they need where they can.
This is an example of that.
If you don't like it, then I would encourage you to lobby Jace to prioritize the exchange of sp on a TG marketplace without the use of the bounty system. Otherwise, we gotta do what we gotta do, and subjective reasons aren't enough to argue for it not happening imo
@Gamebuster I'm still curious.
Would you take issue if I set up a bounty aimed at a single player for $5000 for a 1cc of Rampage on Arcade or MAME?
1cc is a 1 credit complete. I said above it was aimed at a single player.
TG says in their guidelines it is fine to aim a bounty a single player. So it sounds you just disagree with TG's guidelines. Which is fine. But maybe note that this bounty is within those guidelines.
Oh sorry, I didn't see you mention that it's only for one player.
Leaning towards 'no'. I don't see why the bounty system is necessary for that, as you can just make a deal with that person in private.
However, such a bounty wouldn't be as bad as this one for the bounty system. I doubt very many people are going to spam the bounty system with those, or start begging for 5k through the bounty system. Of course, if that did start to happen, then something should be done.
Does it matter if you see why it is necessary? Here are two reasons I can think of: it is binding (within TG) there are potential ramifications for not paying out, so it provides extra security for the one putting forth the effort. It provides a record of the bounty/score.
You seem to think the way a bounty comes about matters. Why?
It seems that you want the bounty system to be a very specific thing. And anything that doesn't fit yoyr parameters doesn't belong. That would make for a pretty boring bounty system in the long run me thinks
I think a simple contract would be sufficient to bind the parties. I can see TGSAP being useful to detect some sort of cheating, especially for a 5k bounty though.
However, if you really want to see that 1cc achievement, and are willing to pay 5k to see it, why restrict the challenge to a specific person? What if someone else is able to do it? That creates a better competitive environment than restricting it to just one person.
The reasoning why a bounty was created is important for the integrity of the bounty system. The creators of bounties should avoid impropriety (and the appearance of impropriety) as much as possible. It will look bad when someone new comes in and sees a bunch of bounties they could participate in, but aren't allowed to due to arbitrary non-gameplay related restrictions, which are tailored specifically for one individual to win.
There are actually very few things that I don't think belong in the bounty system. The first are bounties limited (or intended to be limited) to one individual, and the second are bounties which are so trivial and require such little effort that there is essentially zero competition, and no reasonable person would consider it an 'achievement'. (which is introduction of the guidelines say the bounty system is intended for). Examples include simply booting up a game, be the first to beat any level with no other restrictions, etc.
The point of bounties are so that people can compete, sometimes with a neat twist to the game too (PPMDC does a good job of this, as an example). I don't see how having a bounty which only one person is effectively permitted to participate in would be considered exciting or healthy for the bounty system.
I think that is why is important the way Patrick did it, out in the open without even telling me he was gonna create it. He could have contacted me in private and asked me what sort of bounty I wanted, but instead he created one by himself and he kind of made me work for it. Like I mentioned before, all my consoles are stored in boxes and put away around the house because there is construction being done, so I had to work for almost two hours to find my system and set it up. I went to work in the morning and he created the bounty very early, in those 8 hours somebody else could have claimed it and he would have had to give the bounty to that person.
The way he did it is in my opinion the most honest way to try to help somebody while showing a need in the system, the SP transfer opction. All is out in the open and that is the best way to do it.
I see that you have a pending bounty to claim yourself and maybe this makes your effort feel less significant to you if others can do what we are doing. But as far as I know, the bounties created by TG are the only ones that offer the TG achievement point, am I correct?
You also mentioned that you wouldnt like to see the bounty system cluttered by things like this but in reality the bounty system is not that succesfull anyway and the real clutter comes ironically from the real bounties, that people dont seem interested in. I tell you this because I created a bounty months ago that would fit more within your idea of what a bounty should be, and nobody has been interested so far and Im offering real money.
I agree, that was the most transparent and professional way to create a bounty like this, and I agree an SP transfer option would be nice, even if it's something as little as 5 SP per day.
I only spent about 3 hours (I think?) on the bounty I participated in, I only made 3 or 4 real attempts. It was fun to play though because I've never played MC that way before. But one issue is that it's already hard to find good bounties that I can actually participate in. (I'm thinking about doing the final fantasy one, I've never played any FF game). If a bunch of these are also in the queue, it will be even harder.
I don't really care about TG achievement points that much, but I guess having one would be neat. But yeah only TG can give away achievement points as far as I'm aware.
With regards to your bounty, I think the required cred might be too high for new players. You could also try messaging/pinging people who have submitted to the game, or making a post outside of TG.
tldr
"Waahhhh I want 1k submission points"
I agree with Gamebuster that if the bounty system becomes simply a repository of bounties which are generally limited to small subsets of TG, then the bounty system:
1) Has descended to a use not intended by the bounty system (but which the current bounty system permits).
2) Highlights the (mild) protests by the community that there is not a better system instead of the bounty system for those purposes.
However, a simple counterpoint to the subset issue: many bounties are already limited to NTSC regions only... :P
Holy cow. Ok. One argument is worried about hypotheticals that haven't happened yet and there's a lot of pearl-clutching.
The other argument is that this bounty is fine and doesn't break rules. It can plainly be seen to comply with rules.
It just sounds like gamebuster wants more better bounties, and decided to vent their frustration right here. It's a big nothingburger here. Just misdirected criticism. Wasn't even about the bounty itself. It's about a complaint that there aren't enough "good" bounties.
a comment i was about to leave before the thread closed
a young me would've driven to mexico just to laugh about being a jerk and steal the bounty out from under daniel. When you look at the community as a whole two things even out. Sure if we were all stupid timid and easily intimidated then this is abuse, however, no shortage of jerks who enjoy being jerks, so looking at the ecosystem as a whole there absoutley was a risk someone esle would've grabbed this bounty and others like it
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The whole point of the bounty system is so that anyone can participate in challenges. It is not intended to be used simply as a means to transfer SP between accounts...
https://www.twingalaxies.com/pixe-sukola/wall/12233/need-submission-points
https://www.twingalaxies.com/pixe-sukola/wall/12233/need-submission-points/page/1#comment95434
https://www.twingalaxies.com/bounty/for-all-your-contributions-to-tg/#discussion-1924
Anyone can participate, you just need to be in Mexico to do it...
From Jace's post - "Bounties, when created, must have some kind of pathway to participation that will allow anyone skill-qualified to participate and compete. "
skill-qualified - Being able to complete a track on Mario Kart
To compete, one simply has to be in Mexico and have access to Mario Kart.
"Anyone" is defined as the following:
Anyone: "any person or people."
Anyone is not defined as: "any person or people within the country of Mexico".
If this was an actual competition, people outside of mexico have no way to compete.
Lets say if the mexico restriction was removed, you could just call your buddy and tell him that you're about to post a bounty before you create it specifically to transfer points (I.E. insider trading). He could have all evidence ready before the bounty is ever posted. This would still go against what Jace posted.
This practice tarnishes the bounty system, if this site wants to be taken seriously, this bounty should be removed.
One could argue that anyone is also not defined by any person with access to a specific console.
I don't have a Sega. By your definition above, a bounty that is for a game on the Sega inherently cannot include "anyone"
The very act of creating a bounty includes limits on what is and is not allowed - from the game or console required to the rules to the evidence that might be needed.
As for discrimination and the link you posted - I suspect that based on all of that a bounty is not considered a service. Ie. anyone is allowed to access the site, but it is not uncommon to have contests targeting people in certain states, of certain ages, etc...
Furthermore, bounties for specific gamers are allowed by TG's own ruleset: "
In other words, you can make a bounty for a specific player per the bounty guidelines
"The Creator shall not specifically describe, advertise, or imply that a Bounty they created is aimed at a specific player or user, unless such specific player or user has consented to the use of their name associating the player to the Bounty."
My interpretation of this was sort of the opposite. Meaning it is not appropriate to for me to create a bounty that says "beat one of Blackflag82's scores and win a prize", with out you first consenting to it, as it could be seen as bullying you.
Damn I guess no more Wingstop giftcards if we beat a certain someone.
I can see that.
When I created the bounty for Skywarp to get top 10 on DK he asked for it to be removed. Jace then asked me to remove the bounty based on Tim's request not on the existence of a.bountt for one person. This was after the barthax bounty.
There are also potential legal issues with bounties of this nature, especially if they offer cash or other monetary compensation . A lot of states in the U.S. prevent discriminatory denial of services. It is very likely that this would be considered discrimination based on national origin (or less likely, race).
This is a can of worms TG probably doesn't want to open.
https://lawyerscommittee.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Online-Public-Accommodations-Report.pdf
i believe saying "only mexicans" or "only people with mexican citizenship" can be discriminatory wheras "you must travel to mexico for this" is not. plenty of competitaitons require being in person at a particular location. discrimiantion based on being physcially present at the events location is pretty well accepted